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 BeitragVerfasst am: Sa Jan 11, 2020 00:18    Titel: 144Hz = stuttering after ~1 hour Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Plenty of people (including me) is experiencing stuttering after about 1 hour of playing RBR @ 144Hz. The actual framerate doesn't drop (constant 144 fps) but it feels like the game suddenly starts to skip frames or something ... which is very irritating.

The video demonstrating the issue.

It doesn't seem to be HW / Drivers / GPU settings related as we all have different PC setup. No CPU / GPU throttling due high temps.
On SW side, we have already tried to tweak every possible settings in every possible places (FixUp options, vSync, fullscreen / window, telemetry recording off, compatibility modes etc) ... but no luck.

Is anybody experiencing the same problem and found a fix or a workaround?

Thanks!

My specs:
Intel Xeon X5650
Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti (latest drivers)
32 GB DDR3
2560 x 1440 @ 144Hz (tried both DisplayPort & HDMI)
Win 10 Pro

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Sa Jan 11, 2020 12:32    Titel: 144Hz = stuttering after ~1 hour Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Guys, please test Ha3aP's Fiesta R2 '19 and give him some feedback regarding the model !
I don't have time to test it.

I have updated the RBRCIT model to the current v1.0 version.

************************************

@jendabek

I don't know of any performance issues regarding the refresh rate being more than the standard 60 Hz, after long game play.
At least all game or physics related code is not affected.

Maybe it is a matter of temperature (video card) or related to DirectX, which honestly I doubt.
I have a GPU-Z utility app which dumps some graphics card data.

Try searching the net regarding refresh rate and DirectX or graphics.

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Sa Jan 11, 2020 12:40    Titel: 144Hz = stuttering after ~1 hour Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

WorkerBee hat folgendes geschrieben:

@jendabek

I don't know of any performance issues regarding the refresh rate being more than the standard 60 Hz, after long game play.
At least all game or physics related code is not affected.

Maybe it is a matter of temperature (video card) or related to DirectX, which honestly I doubt.
I have a GPU-Z utility app which dumps some graphics card data.

Try searching the net regarding refresh rate and DirectX or graphics.


It must be game related because I can play other DirectX (DirectX10-12 and much more PC demanding) games for hours without any issue. I have GTX 980 Ti and the card temperature while playing RBR is 70°C. The other guy uses 2080 Ti @ 1440p so his card is almost in idle mode... but has the exactly same problem. He is gaming quite a lot and no other game causes such issue.
Even if we open the main menu and minimize the window ... then after ~ hour it starts to skip frames or just be somewhat choppy.

Maybe I can try vanilla version to just test if the problem is still there.

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Sa Jan 11, 2020 15:12    Titel: 144Hz = stuttering after ~1 hour Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

@jendabek
I also run RBR at 144hz but in VR. gtx1070, 6700k. Everything works well, no frame drops after a while. (I have to play with everything on low graphically) The problem is with some stages, like Verkiai which are horribly optimized the fps drops to 50 or something and of course ruins the whole experience. I really think people should optimize their stages because the world is not gonna stop at 60fps. Especially competitive simulations, after one drives at 144fps going to 60fps is like being drunk or something.
A perfect example is semetin which looks gorgeous and is very well optimized. Again, Verkiai is the complete opposite, even though it looks quite ok the performance is horrible.

If you can check your cpu frametimes. I had to upgrade my cpu recently from an i5 6500 to i7 6700k because rbr can be cpu intensive and only uses one core I think.
 
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Sa Jan 11, 2020 15:39    Titel: 144Hz = stuttering after ~1 hour Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

It is not about the performance itself as I can run every stage even in 4-6K (DSR) @ 144Hz with that 980 Ti, but using just 1440p. My CPU is also powerful and almost idling. One of us now reporting the problem stopped happening after he has set vSyncActive=0 in FixUp.ini. I will test it out once back home.

I agree about Semetin, really perfect example proving that visual quality is more about the clever artistic approach and skills more than bambillion polygons and fancy modern effects.

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 BeitragVerfasst am: So Jan 12, 2020 18:57    Titel: 144Hz = stuttering after ~1 hour Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

I have same problem as Jan, I wrote you about it Bee if you remember. From this time I spend much time for searching a solution but no way. It always go stuttering after a one hour and 5 or above minutes. I tried many things to solve this problem, i.e. switch fullscreen to true and false, but same result. Before few days I tried to turn off vsync. After that I had around 1000fps, my graphic card was whistling and unnecessarily stressed but after one hour and some minutes it no stutter. After 2 hours it still no stutter. But by turn vsync off, game is not smooth as with vsync on and other negative is big using of graphic card. Then I tried turn vsync on by nvidia control panel but nothing has changed, still have around 1000fps in game.
Interesing is, when it start stutter, fps dont drop. It still 144 (my refresh rate on monitor).

CPU: Ryzen 5 3600
GPU: MSI RTX 2070 Armor 8gb
Ram: Kingston HyperX 3333mhz 16gb
Monitor: Aoc Cq32g1 - 2560x1440 144hz
 
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 BeitragVerfasst am: So Jan 12, 2020 20:45    Titel: 144Hz = stuttering after ~1 hour Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

@Dennis Zetak

Little bit offtopic and maybe it is not related your problem, but try vSync=off and clip your fps to 144.

Latest Nvidia drivers (441.87) has that clipping setting, AFAIK.
Or you can use Nvidia Inspector or MSI Afterburner.

There is little bit tearing in the image, but no input lag or whistling GPU.
 
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 BeitragVerfasst am: So Jan 12, 2020 20:58    Titel: 144Hz = stuttering after ~1 hour Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

I have tried that new Max Frame Rate option in nVidia panel and it works only in fullscreen mode, in windowed fullscreen it limits the fps but the game is not smooth.

@Lamda I have telemetry recording turned off.

I have already spent last 2 days by trying to fix this with no luck, I think I have tried every possible tweaks using .ini and nVidia drivers, compatibility modes etc...I have also tried to find some info on web but it seems nobody experienced similar problem so far. This leads me to believe it is a game-specific issue :-/

Stuttering after 1 hour after launching RBR - everytime.

Xeon X5650
Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti
32GB RAM
2560x1440 144Hz (tried HDMI & DisplayPort)
Win 10

Latest drivers of everything, latest FixUp ...

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Mo Jan 13, 2020 01:53    Titel: 144Hz = stuttering after ~1 hour Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

I have the same issues, 144hz monitor and stuttering after 1 hours gameplay although my FPS still shows 144FPS, very strange I presumed it was a personal issues till checking this thread.
Has anybody tried limiting there monitor refresh rate to 120hz? Could work for others but have not had a chance to try it myself.

Also NGP6 is fantastic, massive thanks to worker bee for all the work.

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Mo Jan 13, 2020 15:14    Titel: 144Hz = stuttering after ~1 hour Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

@Kev I tried it at 120 Hz but unfortunately it doesn't feel smooth from the very beginning... maybe it is just 120 vs 144Hz difference, but I wouldn't want to play it like that anyway.
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Mo Jan 13, 2020 17:44    Titel: 144Hz = stuttering after ~1 hour Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Maybe a dumb question, but how long does it usually take to complete a leg of a tournament rally ?

If your average speed is 100 kph you may run stages of 100 km length in one go.

Even a reboot would only take a few seconds considering the current hardware.
Just thinking ... smile

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Mo Jan 13, 2020 18:02    Titel: 144Hz = stuttering after ~1 hour Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

I drive NRC championship events exclusively and each leg takes >1 hour, sometimes even longer. As you know you can't reboot anything during the rally.

This is the yesterday NRC event, you can see that my overall time of the first leg (SS11) is 62 mins + comments, service, loadings..., so I had to drive last 2 stages with that stuttering ...
http://rbr.onlineracing.cz/index.php?act=tourmntres2&torid=db2f14f783cb337f8e98222792f2fb18&stage=11&retired=1

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Mo Jan 13, 2020 18:28    Titel: 144Hz = stuttering after ~1 hour Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

OK, one find out - when the game started to stutter after that 1 hour, I loaded a replay... then after I set the speed to 1.5 or 2 the playback was absolutely smooth. Does it mean something? Surprised
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Mo Jan 13, 2020 19:48    Titel: 144Hz = stuttering after ~1 hour Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

So, the replay is smooth then, if I got it right.

What about actually driving a stage in the plugin right afterwards, is that smooth as well ?

You know, I do not own a 144Hz monitor, so I can not reproduce anything.
But if we find out some "steps" to fix this, I may be able to implement some nasty automated hack to make the game user-friendly again.

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Mo Jan 13, 2020 19:58    Titel: 144Hz = stuttering after ~1 hour Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Restarting RBR is the only way to get it smooth again. This issue is little difficult to debug because I need to wait 1 hour and 5 minutes to check if any fix is working smile But if you have any idea what to try, I will test it out!
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Di Jan 14, 2020 20:10    Titel: 144Hz = stuttering after ~1 hour Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

If I should guess I would say this may be caused by video memory fragmentation.

RBR allocates all required memory for textures/index/vertex buffers when loading the stage, and afterwards deallocates it (from (my) memory I think it deallocates it before loading the next one ? sorry, but I can't remember and I don't debug that stuff everyday).
Nonetheless all allocated memory is deallocated, as I have never come across an allocated object not being cleaned up.

But, all that DirectX buffer stuff is a blackbox, and even worse, the video card's driver is an even darker blackbox, so you never know what happens behind the scenes.

Could be that at high FPS this fragmentation is accelerated, and finally when rendering, the GPU has to "find" and merge the memory chunks, which comes with a processing power cost.
Therefore the stuttering.

The only feasible solution I could think of is to try to completely reset and recreate the device before loading the stage.
But ... none of the addons like Pacenote plugin, dash, enb, whichever hooks into D3D, would survive this, as these usually work with a pointer to the original device object. sad

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Di Jan 14, 2020 21:50    Titel: 144Hz = stuttering after ~1 hour Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

It is worth to note that you don't even need to load any stage, that 1 hour counts from the actual start of the game. So you can launch RBR, Alt-Tab "to Windows" and return after 1 hour, load any stage and it will always start to stutter within 5 minutes. I found nothing that would change this 1 hour interval. I start to think of some timer that starts with the game and kicks in some bad things then eek

Some kind man tries to help me as well in the comments section of the video demonstrating the problem, maybe it can be helpful for you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lyua6f0bZ1g

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Fr Jan 17, 2020 18:28    Titel: 144Hz = stuttering after ~1 hour Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Today I have installed an older version of the nVidia drivers (02-2019) and it looks like it has fixed the issue... Me & Dennis will make more tests to confirm this. If this really solves the issue, I will post the findout to some nVidia support forum.
https://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/143231/en-us

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Fr Jan 17, 2020 20:07    Titel: 144Hz = stuttering after ~1 hour Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Hmm, I don't know why it worked before, but now I have tried to connect my wheel and did some online rally ... and again after 1 hour 5 minutes the stuttering is there... omg this is frustraing.
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Sa Jan 18, 2020 18:43    Titel: 144Hz = stuttering after ~1 hour Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Not sure if this is a help to the 1hr stutter issue but here is 2 screenshots of a before and after the 1 hour mark.
“Application frame host” was consistently in the 10thousands before the stutter but dropped to 7thousand after, (worth noting that some other apps where also lower but I didn’t check if they where up and down anyway)
I tried disabling this after the stutter to no effect.
A shot in the dark but thought I would share in case it servers as a clue.

(Sorry photo will not send)

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Sa Jan 18, 2020 19:37    Titel: 144Hz = stuttering after ~1 hour Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

@jendabek
After watching your video demonstrating the issue I noticed that the smoothness of the car movement doesnt really change with the stuttering but the trees for example really do change and suffer from the stuttering.
After dealing with somehow related issues regarding FPS´s in VR I´m pretty sure that the game is rendering at 144fps even with the stutters. That is a physics update rate problem. You have that in LFS as well for example, and Scawen (one of LFS developers) confirmed the mismatch between physics update rate and FPS. In the case of LFS the physics run at 100hz so if you have a 100hz monitor it runs perfectly.
As for the why it changes at the 1 hour mark I have no idea, but it really can't be a fps problem because you can see stuff being rendered at 144fps. It is a physics update rate problem in my opinion.
I never found out at what rate the physics of rbr update.
For example, with the VR mod 1.4 by kegetys, RBR runs smoother at 90hz than at 120hz. While at 144hz it runs the smoothest. Very easy to see the update rate difference when I look to the side into some trees - there you see the update steps /mismatch between fps and physics rate.


LFS topic about the subject:
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/48927-Physics-engine-rates-of-racing-sims

Sorry I can't be of much help regarding a solution to the 1 hour change problem.
 
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Sa Jan 18, 2020 20:02    Titel: 144Hz = stuttering after ~1 hour Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Thank you guys, I will continue with the investigation, keeping your findouts in my mind. As 144Hz monitors are getting quite cheap these days, I am sure the possible fix would be appreciated by lot of people in the future. I would like to avoid lowering Hz / fps because at all costs as running RBR at 144Hz is something I can't go back from smile
Please keep posting here if you find out anything!

I have Oculus Rift and tested it in it's 90Hz and didn't experience any issue... but as didn't get used to the VR technology at all, I have stopped using it.

Thank you

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Sa Jan 18, 2020 21:24    Titel: 144Hz = stuttering after ~1 hour Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

pedrodfa hat folgendes geschrieben:
Very easy to see the update rate difference when I look to the side into some trees - there you see the update steps /mismatch between fps and physics rate.


Would you mind giving us more details about this ?

What exactly am I supposed to see looking at road side trees ?

The physics tell WHERE some movable object should be located. The update rate specifies how often that position is calculated.
The FPS is a measure of WHEN that object is drawn on screen.

So if e.g. FPS is twice the physics rate, an object would be drawn twice at the same position.

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 BeitragVerfasst am: So Jan 19, 2020 01:44    Titel: 144Hz = stuttering after ~1 hour Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Guys, I have uploaded a video where the stuttering should be much more precisely demonstrated.
I have slowed the video down by lowering it's framerate to 1/4 = 36fps ... as YT doesn't allow custom framerates, I have placed it here so you can download it as a file. (100MB - use the download icon on the top)

Thanks

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 BeitragVerfasst am: So Jan 19, 2020 09:14    Titel: 144Hz = stuttering after ~1 hour Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Jan, even in such slow motion it is very hard to see.
But, what you can see is that there is an "orphaned" frame being drawn intermittently, as FPS goes from 143.75 to 144.74 (or so, some rounding involved).
As this is the case before the 1 hour mark, and afterwards as well, we still can not really deduce anything meaningful.

But what bothers me is that the physics update rate is slightly below these 144 FPS, whereas at 60 FPS (which the majority of players use) the physics update rate is way above.
Just thinking ...

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