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engine sound using FMOD - is implementation possible?

 
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Di Okt 02, 2018 11:08    Titel: engine sound using FMOD - is implementation possible? Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Hi,
when thinking about improving RBR engine sounds, I found projects like FMOD
https://www.fmod.com which allows to produce really realistic engine sound mixing as in this demo:
https://youtu.be/wqlGcdD_0wQ?t=87

I think it should be possible to somehow connect it to RBR via .dll plugin?
If so, is anyone going to try it?

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Fr Okt 05, 2018 19:47    Titel: engine sound using FMOD - is implementation possible? Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

I don't think it is worth the effort to invent just another way to implement sounds in RBR.

There are proper tools out there to create and integrate (engine) sounds in RBR.
No big deal.

But ... it seems that nobody actually is working on new engine sounds.

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Fr Okt 05, 2018 23:00    Titel: engine sound using FMOD - is implementation possible? Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Ah, I see...Can you direct me to those tools?
Thanks smile

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Sa Okt 06, 2018 11:06    Titel: engine sound using FMOD - is implementation possible? Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

jendabek hat folgendes geschrieben:
Ah, I see...Can you direct me to those tools?
Thanks smile


See PM ...

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 BeitragVerfasst am: So Okt 07, 2018 12:21    Titel: engine sound using FMOD - is implementation possible? Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

jendabek hat folgendes geschrieben:
Ah, I see...Can you direct me to those tools?
Thanks smile


You have a PM , i think we can work together on this. smile
 
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Di Feb 25, 2020 03:24    Titel: engine sound using FMOD - is implementation possible? Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

That was clear pain for a noob coder like me, but here you go - Assetto Corsa FMOD sound bank playing in RBR smile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9gq221fVLY

Such a shame I don't have time to fiddle with this any more.

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Di Feb 25, 2020 06:55    Titel: engine sound using FMOD - is implementation possible? Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Ok, so I'm impressed.

Accidentially I have had a close look at this FMOD API stuff over the last few days ... quite a good tool.
But, as usual, you have to absolutely know what you are doing.

So, this was the onboard sound.

But there are still a few features to implement, or issues to solve, however you put it.

What about REPLAY and RALLYSCHOOL mode, where the car is being watched from outside ?
Requires orientation, listener and velocity, and a different sound bank maybe.
What if you lose a door ?

RBR uses only one engine sound sample, and muffles it when onboard, using a lowpass filter.
Same for the replay cameras, the lowpass filter is used here with a varying cut frequency depending on the attitude of the car relative to the listener.

I can help with integrating this into RBR, without the need to hack it ... wink

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Di Feb 25, 2020 11:28    Titel: engine sound using FMOD - is implementation possible? Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

I can't believe what you're showing here.
I've waited a long time for this.
Just the fact that this is possible in RBR.
Happy days biggrin

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Di Feb 25, 2020 11:44    Titel: engine sound using FMOD - is implementation possible? Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

At the moment, it is just another sound system on top of the existing RBR one.
No big deal.

The question is not whether it is possible, the question is whether you want to deal with the hassle of finishing such a project.

There is a 80:20 rule in engineering and software development.
The 80% currently achieved in 20% of dev time look and sound cool, but there is still 80% hard work to do.

Don't get me wrong, I like it, but who will take care of creating those sound banks for more than a hundred cars, after FOD it is seamlessly integrated ?

I can help with integration, maybe providing an interface to the telemetry and the game state, but I am reluctant to implement this new sound system by myself.

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Di Feb 25, 2020 13:38    Titel: engine sound using FMOD - is implementation possible? Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

WorkerBee hat folgendes geschrieben:

Don't get me wrong, I like it, but who will take care of creating those sound banks for more than a hundred cars, after FOD it is seamlessly integrated ?

I can help with integration, maybe providing an interface to the telemetry and the game state, but I am reluctant to implement this new sound system by myself.

Hi!

I'm new here, and I'm not a very experienced modder, but I have an acceptable knowledge about engine sound creation (I'm the author of this and this guide).

I would gladly work on new soundbanks for RBR! And I think the community will have a similar enthusiasm towards FMOD sounds development.
biggrin
 
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Di Feb 25, 2020 14:06    Titel: engine sound using FMOD - is implementation possible? Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Hey, I read both of these guides yesterday at Reddit. Nice to see, that you are now part of this community too cool smile
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Di Feb 25, 2020 15:09    Titel: engine sound using FMOD - is implementation possible? Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

LaTeX hat folgendes geschrieben:
Hey, I read both of these guides yesterday at Reddit. Nice to see, that you are now part of this community too cool smile

Thank you! I would really like to give back something to RBR modding community.
I discovered the existence of RBR about a year ago, and it took me all that time to convince myself to start modding, but hey, better late than never! cool
 
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Di Feb 25, 2020 17:46    Titel: engine sound using FMOD - is implementation possible? Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

uf..this is just insane! I can't believe it really works so well. Good job! respekt

WorkerBee hat folgendes geschrieben:

Don't get me wrong, I like it, but who will take care of creating those sound banks for more than a hundred cars, after FOD it is seamlessly integrated ?


I'm one of these who waited for this. There are lots of people who can create sound via fmod. For RBR? Maybe 5-10(?) on the whole world? I dont know.. and if we preserve "Assetto corsa system" then there are already hundreds of finished sounds (some excelent, some not) so we can draw from these..at least for start.

I can imagine that in the beginning there will be just one "universal" sound for each car category. So we need maybe 10-20 sounds and then it's up to people..

The main problem with sounds in RBR is unpredictible result. We can have best quality records and result sound is just weird. Same with exterior/interior sound. If I find some good exterior sound, then it's quite poor in interior and conversely. And trying to do some new good sound is...*******.
I really appreciate every good sound in nowadays RBR, and there are several I really like. But this step may open up new possibilities.

In term of skins, models and tracks, we can see that people want to create something nice and good. We can see that many people do skins, althought it's quite useless if you drive with onboard camera. But they just want a "real" look. Otherwise we would be content with a white box sliding on the gray road. I think it's the same with sounds. Actual sound system is just too complicated so it discourages most of us.

On the other hand, there will be still a choice. Those who are satisfied with actual sounds, can keep them. Those for whom sound is an important factor, can have more.

I know people who play various games just because of sound quality, and I also know people who play RBR with original sounds. But now both of them can have choice.
 
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Mi Feb 26, 2020 14:07    Titel: engine sound using FMOD - is implementation possible? Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

WorkerBee hat folgendes geschrieben:

What about REPLAY and RALLYSCHOOL mode, where the car is being watched from outside ?
Requires orientation, listener and velocity, and a different sound bank maybe.
What if you lose a door ?

RBR uses only one engine sound sample, and muffles it when onboard, using a lowpass filter.
Same for the replay cameras, the lowpass filter is used here with a varying cut frequency depending on the attitude of the car relative to the listener.


As 99% of time we are driving and 1% watching a car from an external camera, I think it is OK to start with some kind of a BETA version that would produce only onboard audio.
And if there is an option to control the native RBR engine sound volume programmatically, then we could simply switch to the native engine audio during replays as a workaround.
Later - if we can somehow get the access to the necesary data (car vs camera position, velocity etc) - I don't see any problem why external view audio couldn't be implemented as well. And the results could be even better as FMOD supports multichannel audio (could be very nice for the onboard as well!). Doppler effect is also supported.
Google pointed me to this: https://documentation.help/FMOD-Studio-API/FMOD_Studio_EventInstance_Set3DAttributes.html

One .bank file contains all the audio - internal, external, effects etc., with all the mixing, filters as a modder configured it in the FMOD Studio SW.
So what the end-user needs is the .bank file and the corresponding generated GUID.txt file (it contains all the sound events that can be triggered from the code) - exactly like when installing sounds for Assetto Corsa.
BTW, this is the FMOD audio creation workflow for AC which can be now used for RBR as well (if we don't decide to organize the soundbanks differently, i.e. to cover some rally-specific audio stuff): https://drive.google.com/open?id=11LCdFnIaelLN5FKzMEE52hLNSE_Hj5_d
There are also some YT tutorials available, so people could start with the creation straight away.

Speaking of loosing the door etc., this should be just about catching the event (can you detect it somehow?) and reflect this in the FMOD program. When this event is detected, we will add external sound to the internal in some ratio (like 1 door = 25%, both doors = 50%), put it in the correct stereo position, increase the volume of the wind effect... simple and should do the trick smile But as I said - for me these are subtle things that can be added & tweaked in the later versions.

WorkerBee hat folgendes geschrieben:

I can help with integrating this into RBR, without the need to hack it ... wink


This is what I wanted to hear, thanks smile But maybe we should consider keeping the tool in a form of the external app? This is like SimHub works and it is kind of OK, but I am not sure yet. What I like about the external variant is that it can't mess up the actual game. You can also tweak the sounds, restart the program and dig into it without the need of restarting the game to reload the plugin. On the other side some in-game menu for a bank selection and other settings be handy. I can't comment the technical aspects - I am really not expert on this, I don't know anything about threading and how RBR plugins work, what are the limitations etc... this is why I would really appreciate your skills and suggestions here.

WorkerBee hat folgendes geschrieben:
At the moment, it is just another sound system on top of the existing RBR one.
No big deal.

The question is not whether it is possible, the question is whether you want to deal with the hassle of finishing such a project.

There is a 80:20 rule in engineering and software development.
The 80% currently achieved in 20% of dev time look and sound cool, but there is still 80% hard work to do

I can help with integration, maybe providing an interface to the telemetry and the game state, but I am reluctant to implement this new sound system by myself.


My goal was to confirm that this is technically possible and that the implementation is not a rocket science (compared to NGP physics). I wanted to start the serious discussion about it and initiate the development of a tool that will deal with one of the RBR's biggest weakness.
You know that my priorities are different (tracks) and I am not such skilled programmer compared to you, that is why I would appreciate if you can help with this. I am pretty sure that making a tool like this is really simple task for you, seeing what crazy things you are capable to accomplish within such short time (like that custom stage loader in FixUp 3 - I can't understand smile)) and you would progress much faster and also producing much higher quality code.
AFAIK there is no need of using FMOD low level API, I am sure we can live with FMOD Studio API which is quite simple, so you shouldn't need to learn much to implement it properly. This should be mostly basic C++ you are clearly more than familiar with smile
But the most importanly - I don't think we need to cover everything to get the community something usable, that will already move RBR into different universe in the term of the audio.

WorkerBee hat folgendes geschrieben:

Don't get me wrong, I like it, but who will take care of creating those sound banks for more than a hundred cars, after FOD it is seamlessly integrated ?


Exactly like wrcpuncture said - as the tools for creating the sounds and the whole workflow in general is so user-friendly, predictable and allowing to achieve very good results in a very short time, I am pretty sure we will get rally-specific sounds very quickly. I already know about 3 people who are determined to take care of this and one of them is even a professional audio engineer, he will join this thread soon.
The author of the engine sound I used in my demo said you can get decent sound in like 2 hours if you have the samples available.
For the start we can make just the mostly driven cars, and the most specific ones... the projects of these can then serve as a templates for making the rest.

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Mi Feb 26, 2020 17:20    Titel: engine sound using FMOD - is implementation possible? Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

@wrcPuncture, jendabek

Yes, we agree, maybe except on some details.

If changing that "external mod" on-the-fly is an absolute requirement, we may load it before starting the stage, and unload it completely afterwards.

Due to compiler issues we will have to separate the FMOD code (supplier) from the plugin code (client) anyway.
The way to go would be to use Fixup as the client, as this already hooks into and changes lots of sound related stuff.
Here we can mute or deactivate unwanted RBR sounds, and let the FMOD supplier do the rest.
In 3D space, depending on the camera etc.
Fiddling a little with listeners, positions and orientations should be not the big deal.
That's only a minor part of the whole project.
BETA is not my personal approach. You know that. wink

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Mi Feb 26, 2020 19:59    Titel: engine sound using FMOD - is implementation possible? Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

If you don't like BETAs we can publish 1.0 for the onboard audio only and 2.0 would add the external one smile

What do you suggest as the next step? Can I share my disaster quality project with you?

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Mi Feb 26, 2020 20:48    Titel: engine sound using FMOD - is implementation possible? Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Check your email.
Depends on how difficult it is to integrate camera/position etc., we will see what goes into V1.0.

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Fr März 06, 2020 15:33    Titel: engine sound using FMOD - is implementation possible? Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Hi guys, if you want to help with preparing the new FMOD sounds and have some experience with the audio processing (as it is not an easy task), feel free to join the related Discord channel where we can share our work & knowledge.

https://discord.gg/K5VAS7U

Thank you!

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 BeitragVerfasst am: So Mai 24, 2020 23:21    Titel: engine sound using FMOD - is implementation possible? Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

https://youtu.be/NwxCQzo1roY

BIG THX to all guys involved into this project! The community is going to love this! eek

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Mo Mai 25, 2020 21:17    Titel: engine sound using FMOD - is implementation possible? Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

The FMOD plugin release & i20 WRC 2020 sound video!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU1XzJc_6hs

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Di Mai 26, 2020 01:13    Titel: engine sound using FMOD - is implementation possible? Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Very promising, both in-car and especially for the outside / stage cams this sounds pretty amazing.
Only thing that puzzles me in both videos is the die-off when the driver lifts the foot completely from gas. It's almost as if the engine died completely. Considering a comment in the second video this is something you'll hopefully tackle at some later evolution steps.
For me a good and rich sound is very important and I am really happy to see and hear some new stuff in this area. Tweaking the sound in RBR was kind of black magic and it would be a great story if FMOD could "simplify" this and allow more people to create distinct sound for different cars.

Awesome, keep up the good work, I am looking forward to it!

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