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 BeitragVerfasst am: So Jan 05, 2020 14:28    Titel: NGP (Next Generation Physics) Plugin Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Zitat:
Without knowing the exact state of the project it's fairly disrespectful to make such assumptions. If there's any room for improvement I'd say it's safe to say Bee is more than aware of it.
belive me, i know more than most driver about possibilitys of RBR especially NGP. For a game it is huge and deep. thats the reasion, why a game from 2003 is still allive and stay the best rallygame the world seen.

What your post in general stand for ? shooting against Lamda in all ways? If you have to say something about my words, please use the full context not only few words.
foor example
Zitat:
"Poor" is rather harsh given
It is the Point of view. If you would know how real simulations work and how much parameter needs to equal for small things you would also say 3 differences are to poor to get a real technical simulation. But i also think for RBR and its level of detail it is to less too (but not changeable)

Zitat:
it's a bit much to say it's "far"
i say only a little bit far, which changed the meaning drasticly.
only 2 examples.... im far away to say RBR NGP is bad in anyway. I say it is not perfect and have room for improvements (and know myself its possible to do it as long bee say it is impossible to do)

Zitat:
Then you're simulating a very narrow aspect and each and every little change would require different kind of simulation.
Thats not right. You have 2 Ways to reduce the effort of a simulation. cut points out, wich is not direct in your point of interest and have only little influence of your wanted goal ( sometimes you need to replace these parts with aproximates values or constants, whatever) or simplyfy something.
on this point i can tell you, i m mechanical ingeneer for (industrial) machines and simulate (static and dynamic) some of engineered parts myself (or let simulate from speecial engineers). I also worked (and ebngineer parts for) in a company which makes teststands for car industry (Braking- rolling- engine teststands and windtunnel components). i worked on the engine teststand for the 2016 Polo WRC and saw the (full) engine Model (it takes 2h to open it).
For example: to simulation Forces and bending of a simple Gear (6 toothed wheels, spur-tothed) you need for equalizing aprox 1 hours if you have simplyfy it (replace involveents of thoth and reduce the mesh size and cut of all unnessesary components). A car is much more complicated and RBR replace bodys (and its behavior) with equalations.
So i belive i know enough to make a base statement about this.....


Zitat:
Play around, do some testing, read basic dynamics and see if it makes sense and corresponds to what is expected.
my thinking is not against theoretical behavior, Telemetry shows you how it is. As always, reaction and counterreaction. first, if your reaction is not correct, counterreaction is not too. The other way, if your response from last car reaction is not correct, you will counteerreact wrong too. its not that simple to find out which is the missing link first.

Zitat:
There's couple of side-by-side videos. "Proving" it's technically possible to match real driver's time and techniques.
time ? in case of poorness of RBR you serious want compare it, but you dont drive 1:1 the same behavior? I seee some comparation videos, but allways seee there some scene cuts, driving and video drifts apart or the driver syncronised his driving to the video. in theeese videos you allways seen, some RBR parts are faster and some parts slower than reality. In long term reality and RBR are (still) to far away to realy compare it.

Zitat:
I'd also say if you'd pay half as much time on current NGP videos I'm sure you'd notice cars do seem to be moving and behaving in a rather similar fashion
again, i never said the behavior worked basicly wrong, you interpret my statements totaly wrong. The reaction of the car by steering and braking is more than only basicly right!
And also there is nothing wrong with his explainations but the result is not so close as it should.

Zitat:
With a little bit of movie magic or slight tweaking could probably match original RBR with some professional driver
sorry, no! without NGP Dirt Rally is more close on a real behavior than RBR original. Nothing will help against that (especially a complete fake)

Zitat:
Stick to that. Either find someone who *can* prove or disprove it or wait for it to happen.
makes no sense. My statement based on my test (and i realy try it in many ways) if you make a statement against, you should show me that im wrong, isnt it? as long it isnt, as long stays my own as right.

Zitat:
You can't really "dig in"
belive me, there is a parameter for smile

Zitat:
But all that said NGP is still an impressive approximation.
never said different, but i go furthrt, it is in many points more than a simply aproximation. thats the reason, why it is so good.

How you can say im wrong if you dont able to show me opposite


Replay I20R5 NGP6.2

uploaded my replay from 6.2, its realy better and more close to reality as 6.1. you can extract the setup or analyse it. Im the last one, who not accept if im wrong. I have no probleem to prove against myself. give me hints, tell me how to do it in detail (based on the video/replays). but please dont catch one scene, I know myself im not a pro. There are some times understeering but the setup should be generate a agressive oversteering mostly

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Zuletzt bearbeitet von Lamda am So Jan 05, 2020 16:47, insgesamt 2-mal bearbeitet
 
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 BeitragVerfasst am: So Jan 05, 2020 14:39    Titel: NGP (Next Generation Physics) Plugin Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Could we maybe get some more Historic cars before S2000? biggrin Audi Quattro is great to drive. A1 is my favorite car in NGP6
 
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 BeitragVerfasst am: So Jan 05, 2020 16:14    Titel: NGP (Next Generation Physics) Plugin Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

it would be great to have cars s1600, s2000, kitcars and A6 in the style of this little car.... biggrin https://dm3drbrevolution.blogspot.com/2017/11/peugeot-106-ph2-v10.html?m=1



the work in ngp6 is being incredible, maybe in my day I complained about the behavior of the front-wheel drive cars, but I could correct the feeling of excessive skidding with the setup
 
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 BeitragVerfasst am: So Jan 05, 2020 16:27    Titel: NGP (Next Generation Physics) Plugin Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

You can also measure this Peugeot 206, it would be very good for some championships.
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the ngp 6 physics are awesome, thank you very much for your work
 
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 BeitragVerfasst am: So Jan 05, 2020 17:46    Titel: NGP (Next Generation Physics) Plugin Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Guys, slow down ... I also love these classic cars, but I also have to keep in mind the majority of championships and users.

So it's always a compromise which cars get higher priority.

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Mo Jan 06, 2020 01:51    Titel: NGP (Next Generation Physics) Plugin Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Last year we organized the first edition of a regional championship in the CZ plugin called CGRV (Galicia, Spain) in which we had 292 participants, and in that championship that type of "amateur" vehicles would be used
there were too many participants in R1 and R2 as there were no vehicles of category A6 or N3


Of course you put the priority, it is only as a suggestion for when you think it is convenient

http://rbr.onlineracing.cz/index.php?act=tourmntsview&torid=81e4e83d6181c43c976c1dcc220aa645
 
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Sa Jan 11, 2020 03:50    Titel: NGP (Next Generation Physics) Plugin Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

You have telemetry recording on?
Maybe the filee in memory is too big (or someething else )

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Sa Jan 11, 2020 11:19    Titel: NGP (Next Generation Physics) Plugin Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Ford Fiesta R2 '19
http://nazarswan.blogspot.com
 
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Sa Jan 11, 2020 21:16    Titel: NGP (Next Generation Physics) Plugin Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Ha3aP's Fiesta R2 '19 v1.0 : Everything is fine now. Problems from before are fixed.
 
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 BeitragVerfasst am: So Jan 12, 2020 03:12    Titel: NGP (Next Generation Physics) Plugin Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

the Ford Fiesta R2T has been spectacular!!

Ford Fiesta R2T
 
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 BeitragVerfasst am: So Jan 12, 2020 12:52    Titel: NGP (Next Generation Physics) Plugin Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

2020-01-12
* new cars
** Peugeot 205 T16 GrpB (model by MokuMoku)
** Ford Fiesta Mk VIII R2 (model by Ha3aP)

For sure the 205 T16 is the best rally car ever built (speaking of the base car, of course the E2 was even better due to aero and drive train improvements).
I still remember seeing this vehicle the first time back in 1984, man, we were impressed !!
Such a fast, tiny and beautiful little beast. In group B for sure a purpose built car was the way to go.
Long wheelbase and small overhangs, mid-engine, easy to maintain.

The Ford Fiesta Mk VIII R2 is now part of the official portfolio of NGP6.

EDIT:
Peugeot 205 T16 GrpB updated to rev. 41 !

Seems to have a very tight collision mesh, so the bonnet was already damaged at the start.
Fixed.

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Mo Jan 13, 2020 02:14    Titel: NGP (Next Generation Physics) Plugin Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Ford Fiesta R2T '19 in Zadverice!!
Great car and great stage

[img]https://i.ibb.co/BzL4VY4/rbr-654.png[/img]

[img]https://i.ibb.co/BtbNQGt/rbr-650.png[/img]
 
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Gesplittet: Di Jan 14, 2020 09:24 Uhr von LaTeX
Von Beitrag NGP Discussion including NGP5.1 / 04.09.2019 aus dem Forum Next Generation Physics
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Mi Jan 15, 2020 01:56    Titel: NGP (Next Generation Physics) Plugin Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

https://leiro35.wixsite.com/leirorbr

interesting news of this great modeler, with the porsche 997 GT3 2010 v2, the Mitsubishi evo 8 gr.A,cordoba wrc and ibiza kitcar finished

In progress there is also the peugeot 306 maxi
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Mi Jan 15, 2020 03:40    Titel: NGP (Next Generation Physics) Plugin Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

What can be changed in the wrc setup so that the address has more reaction?
I notice that they do not have the same reaction and sensitivity as the r5, in wrc I have a slow direction sensation.

And another thing, I can't make turns without making a counter-steering, does anyone have the key to make a turn in the forks like these without losing the rear train?

here we can see how loeb does not make a counter-steering at any time

https://youtu.be/wTaB0udJsYM
 
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Mi Jan 15, 2020 09:53    Titel: NGP (Next Generation Physics) Plugin Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Leiro has done also my favourite car, Evo VI, very nice model and I cant wait for physics on this.
About hairpins. Bee thinks, that we are all unexperienced drivers and all of us is on very amateur level biggrin. But I think, there is problem with tyres. When it goes to slide, there is small lateral grip, especially in slow corners where aero has no effect. So you will always fighting with RC1 car on hairpins and every entry to the hairpins will be unknown.
 
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Mi Jan 15, 2020 11:22    Titel: NGP (Next Generation Physics) Plugin Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Denis: is exactly what I feel, there must be something there, if bee can solve it we would be happier in our lives haha, the rest in the ngp6 is PERFECT, it is incredible
 
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Mi Jan 15, 2020 14:53    Titel: NGP (Next Generation Physics) Plugin Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

There is an update for the Porsche RGT 2010 model from Leizo that is in the game. https://leiro35.wixsite.com/leirorbr?fbclid=IwAR2eG8walGHc6lEuqt5gWIn0tBHzm-EtK-UXoaCJVeI3Cnkbjgk1h42AKO0

Zuletzt bearbeitet von Fabz am Mi Jan 15, 2020 15:21, insgesamt einmal bearbeitet
 
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Mi Jan 15, 2020 14:57    Titel: NGP (Next Generation Physics) Plugin Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

I am not such good driver like Dennis, but I can't support this - from my experience it is totally possible to drive through a hairpin without a counter steering and everytime I end up in a spin I always realized that I have estimated the hairpin incorrectly - chose wrong entry speed, pulled the handbrake too early / for too long, wasn't sensitive enough with gas pedal... also the road profile matters a lot (positive / negative)... all of this must be taken into account and that is why I like the current behavior so much - the hairpins are now much more challenging and requires much more sensitivity and skills to master them properly.
Also we shouldn't forget about the extra feedback the real drivers have compared to simracing which gives them more sensitivity and better control over the car.

That doesn't mean the current behavior is absolutely perfect, but I don't think it is fair to send a video of the multiple world champion and tell Bee to change the physics so we can drive like him.

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Mi Jan 15, 2020 15:10    Titel: NGP (Next Generation Physics) Plugin Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Klicke auf das Bild um das Bild in der Originalgröße zu öffnen.

By Leiro

lol lol lol
 
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Do Jan 16, 2020 15:25    Titel: NGP (Next Generation Physics) Plugin Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

jendabek hat folgendes geschrieben:
That doesn't mean the current behavior is absolutely perfect, but I don't think it is fair to send a video of the multiple world champion and tell Bee to change the physics so we can drive like him.


As seen on many national rallyes or even on WRC you can see Private drivers who can do hairpins without spinning the car.
If i look at Jännerrallye, there was one driver who drives his 2nd Rallye overall in R5 and made it to the finish on 12th position.

No need to be a multiple champion to do some hairpins without spin.
As i have heard R5 cars are pretty easy to handle.

In my opinion the behavior of the car in NGP6 on hairpin corner exit is simply wrong.
I don't know what is the problem but there is something strange going on.
If you do not countersteer on the perfekt timing, its just spinning, i made some changes to the setup, which made it possible to save the car with throttle input.
But also with a lot of things tryed on the setup its way to hard to do some hairpins sideways without spinning the car.

Never had this on other NGP versions.
If i had problems i could fix it with my personal car setup.

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Do Jan 16, 2020 20:34    Titel: NGP (Next Generation Physics) Plugin Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Hallo allerseits!
Mit Ihrer Erlaubnis teile ich das Skoda Fabia R5-Setup für Kies, Asphalt und Schnee.
Die oben genannten Probleme treten bei dieser Einstellung für mich nicht auf.
Sie werden geehrt, wenn Sie es versuchen.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Gábor Vas
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https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ntOoYAL9iAQ-kUIMijS0URI_jkhgTkXD/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CcmTmjmgo0Ub0mzepew9B4_5oi6ZP-x3/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GzxnmkxTln_2uHIUBAJXi98YdH9m1cVL/view?usp=sharing
 
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Lamda
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Do Jan 16, 2020 21:07    Titel: NGP (Next Generation Physics) Plugin Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Zitat:
In my opinion the behavior of the car in NGP6 on hairpin corner exit is simply wrong.


im defenitly not with you if you especially you talking about tarmac!

try: 1. reduce handbrakee preessure; 2. reduce handbrake release (i set it to 0)

this should be enough to avoid spinning. maybe you have a little bit less acceelate on turn out (real driver also not hit full accelation on turn out, if they do, they would also spin too)

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Do Jan 16, 2020 22:06    Titel: NGP (Next Generation Physics) Plugin Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Lamda hat folgendes geschrieben:
try: 1. reduce handbrakee preessure; 2. reduce handbrake release (i set it to 0)


I use a Fanatec handbrake, no need to reduce the handbrake pressure.

My feeling is, there must be something wrong with the differentials.
Cars are not spinning because of to much handbrake, i can make very small inputs on the fanatec handbrake and i use it mostly on corner entry or even just a little bit before the corner.

Rest must be done with Brake/Throttle to make the perfect hairpin turn.
You just need a good timing for the handbrake on the corner entry.

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Do Jan 16, 2020 22:33    Titel: NGP (Next Generation Physics) Plugin Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

i tried it with Yaris WRC, as i set handbrake release to 0 and reduce handbrake pressure to aprox 80% i have no issue with the hairpins on cote.

i realy dont know why it matter, but it does. i fell the tyres spinning easier and faster without thee changes? so if there get the grip back they give the rear a kick (by differentials)?
if i look to real videos, the drivers have often problems with a turn out kick if they accelate (to much). It is also possible in NGP. This argues are for me enough to say it looks not wrong.

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Fr Jan 17, 2020 08:38    Titel: NGP (Next Generation Physics) Plugin Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

I believe that the R5 behaves correctly on the forks, only a good differential setup and a little technique are needed

https://youtu.be/Q_TusZepyBw
 
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