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BUCK Tyler
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Di März 12, 2019 03:50    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Hi WorkerBee,

I noticed that when I try to shift into a gear that doesn't exist (trying to shift to 7th in the DS3 WRC for example) the engine briefly drops RPM. Is this intended? It's something I wouldn't expect to happen.

Before anyone says that I should just remember what gear I'm in... check Neuville's facecam onboard for SS2 of Rally Sweden. I was surprised by how many times he tried to shift to 7th.
 
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Di März 12, 2019 10:37    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Zitat:
Now we need to establish a petition which would force Wally to continue with development of his editor or release the sources (I dream about specular maps for my buildings!!!)

that will never happend... and more important as specular maps are a useable second texturmap so crossfades textures are possible. THAT would improve trackmacking!

but back to NGP6

what ever you test, as higher the NGP versions you get more impact by setupchanges. You have several options to adjust the different cars of your driving style. If you think its to less sensitiv, make the car stiffer (damper, springs or anti-roll-bars).
the basic setups are made for basic skilled driver. so everyone is able to drive good times with a good control of the car. For "professional" driving and top times you allways need your own setup (and you should skilled enough to imagine the result of your changes).

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Di März 12, 2019 11:42    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Lamda: Both features would be very useful for sure, the blending for the terrain and speculars for objects & road (especially)... and then if we can even add some custom animations ... sorry, I am dreaming smile

I am really satisfied with NGP 6 after recent minor changes, even with the default setup and I love how different now each classes and the individual cars are - I cannot wait to see how the online community with deal with this wink
Razz

Good job guys! smile

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Di März 12, 2019 16:59    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

@Tyler
Yes, maybe just a slight reduction in drive train torque.
But honestly I only realize this because of the sound, otherwise it is not noticeable at all.
I seriously doubt that a professional rally driver does not know which gear he uses, and even worse, tries to shift up when there is none.

**************************

Anyway, folks, a "new" car is available, the

Skoda Fabia R5 (b), model by Ha3aP

Basically it was not the plan to do more than one car per class in the first place.
But for the non-believers to be able to compare different cars of that same class, here you go.

Feel free to check it out.

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BUCK Tyler
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Di März 12, 2019 17:19    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

WorkerBee hat folgendes geschrieben:
@Tyler
Yes, maybe just a slight reduction in drive train torque.
But honestly I only realize this because of the sound, otherwise it is not noticeable at all.


I agree that it's not a huge problem. I can learn to drive around it but it's definitely something I will beat myself up over every time I make the mistake. Every split second counts and looking at some telemetry there is indeed a dip in RPM when this happens.

WorkerBee hat folgendes geschrieben:
@Tyler
I seriously doubt that a professional rally driver does not know which gear he uses, and even worse, tries to shift up when there is none.


If you have a WRC+ subscription you really should check out Thierry's onboard from SS2 Rally Sweden because I'm not lying about this. Start at about 3:55. He will already be in 6th gear and you will notice him try to shift up 4 (yes a total of FOUR) times before eventually braking and downshifting. I noticed it when I was watching live and had to rewind to confirm what I was seeing. Last I checked, Thierry Neuville is a professional driver.

Anyway I just wanted to bring this to your attention. It's not ruining my experience of NGP6 smile
 
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Di März 12, 2019 20:01    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Great job.When you add Fiesta WRC 2019 ngp 6 physics?
 
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Di März 12, 2019 20:53    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

fsrc_ovidiu hat folgendes geschrieben:
Great job.When you add Fiesta WRC 2019 ngp 6 physics?


probably when NGP 6 is out it will be there biggrin
 
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BUCK Tyler
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Mi März 13, 2019 01:27    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

WorkerBee hat folgendes geschrieben:
I seriously doubt that a professional rally driver does not know which gear he uses, and even worse, tries to shift up when there is none.


I was just watching some more Neuville onboards and I've got to say... He seems to want 7th gear more than he wants a world championship title. Forget SS2 take a look at any of his onboards with a long flat 6th gear sections. Here is a clip from SS4. It's basically just 1min of Neuville trying to shift up. I lost count of how many times he tried but it doesn't matter. The important thing is that the car doesn't seem to react at all.

I guess three posts about this is enough though so I'll shut up about it and try out this new car biggrin
 
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Mi März 13, 2019 01:41    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Just to support Tyler - I can confirm I saw this many times when watching WRC All Live, I even remember WRC commentators laughing in the studio when they noticed a driver trying to shift above 6th gear in a fast stage like this.
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Mi März 13, 2019 18:44    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Hello.
Few questions again :)

What are the units of "raw" telemetry data?
I have made my own *.gp -files, but most of the units are unknown to me.
Example, temperatures are usually Kelvins, so I have to do math (raw - 273.15).

Telemetry.tsv:
totalSteps = Tics
progress = ?
raceTime = Seconds
speed = Kilometres per hour
engineRotation = Revolutions per minute
gear = Number - 1
driveLineLocation = ?
travelDistance = ?
distanceToEnd = Metres
stage = Number
.
.
.
RB.wear[6] = ?
RB.wear[7] = ?

And what are the "Tics"?
If I play only RBR, then I don't need to know it, but if I wanna replicate RBR -settings to other sims or In-Real-Life, it's good to know the unit of "Tic".

Bonus:
Is "Ignition" -button useless? (Options -> Controls -> Controller Setup -> Controller Setup -> Ignition)
Car only starts when gear is neutral and gas pedal is pressed.
Or does it need some hardware/settings to make it work?
 
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Mi März 13, 2019 20:19    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Ignition does something (applies starter torque), but anyway, the throttle has to be 50% (or so) and gear neutral.
This is some legacy RBR shit I am just too lazy to fix, and is not worth the effort.

Usually all units are SI.
Distances m, forces N, torque Nm, velocity m/s, accel m/s^2, angular stuff rad/s etc.

totalSteps is just a unique counter, increasing.
progress is the driveline position in m

temps are usually Kelvin

wear is usually without units, or in most cases 0..1 or 0..100%.
Brakewear is a little bit special, but the script gives the true percentage.

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Mi März 13, 2019 22:23    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Ok. Thanks again :)

gnuplot is new to me, so it's very interesting to learn a new tool.
 
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Do März 14, 2019 10:28    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Zitat:
progress = ?


practical use:

if you see peaks and you want know whats happend, jump with pacenoteeditor and this value to the right position at your replays.

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Sa März 16, 2019 11:38    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

New car available:

* Citroen Xsara WRC 2006 (model by eddy3spain & rivers from the CZ download site)

* Hyundai i20 R5 updated (gravel/snow: more spring travel)

Up next ... another rally car. biggrin

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Sa März 16, 2019 17:03    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Excellent, thanks!
I have made another video with the latest version of NGP ((I hope it can be considered as finished as I used the statement in the title) to demonstrate your impressive work smile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEkqg7Cp62A

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Sa März 16, 2019 17:13    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Thx, already watched it. Well done.
Beware of the Dirt fanboys ...

Anyway NGP 6 can be considered as finished, I do not release beta stuff.

The issue with the brake temps was my mistake, one of my telemetry scripts was just wrong and I simply have not realized that the brakes actually were overheating and totally screwed at the end of some stages instead of being just a little bit worn. lol

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Sa März 16, 2019 17:42    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

I always respond "enjoy Dirt!" to Dirt fanboys... flame over smile
EDIT: No single hating comment yet, it seems like the physics overshines all the negativity smile)

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Mo März 18, 2019 21:33    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Well, you gotta love it !! biggrin

******************************

Long awaited, but finally a genuine NGP last generation WRC 2.0 car is available:

* Citroen C4 WRC 2008, model by Kubrt

These are the very first physics which actually fit this model.
Anyway, have fun!

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Di März 19, 2019 14:44    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

I have huge respect for your work workerbee, but unfortunetely I think ngp3.1 on gravel was better than the latest versions. Regarding ngp6, cars seem to be too light and grippy (speaking for gravel only and r5). Also the handbrake just seems too drastic. I watch TONS of rally footage, wrc+ and everything and im a long long user of rbr, and I really wonder if you would support ngp6 if you would drive an r5 car for example.
There´s not enough weight in the cars in my opinion.

On a side note, sorry to be judjing you, but you should be a bit more humble with other people´s critics. For exemple when Tyler Buck pointed you out the 7th gear rpm drop thing and proved you with wrc footage that it wasnt accurate on ngp you just ignored it (and also you saying that any driver knew which gear they were in, when in fact Tyler showed you footage of neuville constantly going for 7th gear, and then you didnt say anything). Also with the whole i20 r5 - one can see you changed a lot the driving from the first ngp6 version of the car. But you have a hard time admitting when you are wrong.
I understand that, in the way that you know more than anyone here about what you are doing.
Now crucify me people.

love to everyone, peace.
 
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Di März 19, 2019 16:42    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

@pedrodfa

As any troll you only read what you want to read.

So, read this:

I don't discuss with trolls.

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Mi März 20, 2019 15:52    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Hello Bee,
nice to see you work so quick, but today I tried a C4 and shift target is not good setted up. I must shift in RBR around 5000-5500 rpm. Here is Sordos onboard, and he shifted at 6500 rpms.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dWCci7CDHw

I try to set brakes and here I saw, that I set a same pressure on front and rear brakes and ratio is not 50:50. Same problem in Xsara

And about dampers. You mean, old wrc has 4way dampers? I dont think so. It came with new era wrc (2012+)

Today I tried to setup cars and I felt something strange, so I look to physics file and calculate weight ratio between some cars. I was surprised, when I saw, that DS3 WRC, Fabia R5, Hyundai R5 have almost ratio 50:50 ... Xsara WRC 52:48. It is possible to make rally cars too balanced?
 
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Mi März 20, 2019 20:37    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Dennis Zetak hat folgendes geschrieben:
Hello Bee,
nice to see you work so quick, but today I tried a C4 and shift target is not good setted up. I must shift in RBR around 5000-5500 rpm. Here is Sordos onboard, and he shifted at 6500 rpms.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dWCci7CDHw

That depends on the engine mapping and the traction diagram.
Nothing wrong here.

Dennis Zetak hat folgendes geschrieben:

I try to set brakes and here I saw, that I set a same pressure on front and rear brakes and ratio is not 50:50. Same problem in Xsara

No problem. I would be surprised if it was 50:50.
Why should it be 50:50 ?
It seems like you don't know how a hydraulic brake system actually works.

Dennis Zetak hat folgendes geschrieben:

And about dampers. You mean, old wrc has 4way dampers? I dont think so. It came with new era wrc (2012+)

Even for the Xsara you could buy 4-way dampers, this is no invention of the "new era" cars, if you put it this way.

Dennis Zetak hat folgendes geschrieben:

Today I tried to setup cars and I felt something strange, so I look to physics file and calculate weight ratio between some cars. I was surprised, when I saw, that DS3 WRC, Fabia R5, Hyundai R5 have almost ratio 50:50 ... Xsara WRC 52:48. It is possible to make rally cars too balanced?

Well, even back in the mid 80s engineers were able to build balanced cars.
The modern cars are purpose built racing beasts, with almost nothing in common with your production car.
The "perfect" weight distribution is one of the main goals in designing a rally car.

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Mi März 20, 2019 21:48    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Look at this picture. You mean, its allright? Its against logic..
https://imgur.com/HXEqyDI

About dampers, you said, we can buy nowadays a 4way dampers .. yes, you right, and then, when you make some historic cars, you make for example Ford Escort MK2 with Reiger 4way dampers? Cmoon... Its not according to homologation list.

About weight.. I wrote some cars with weight balance from NGP 5..:
POLO - 53:47
Fiesta 2017 - 52:48
Fabia R5 - 54:46 ...etc..

And now, in NGP6, Fabias balance is 50:50 .. That looks like only your tries
 
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Mi März 20, 2019 22:09    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Dennis Zetak hat folgendes geschrieben:
Look at this picture. You mean, its allright? Its against logic..
https://imgur.com/HXEqyDI

Against your "logic" without knowing how a real brake is actually functioning.
You still have to explain why this should be wrong.

Dennis Zetak hat folgendes geschrieben:

About dampers, you said, we can buy nowadays a 4way dampers .. yes, you right, and then, when you make some historic cars, you make for example Ford Escort MK2 with Reiger 4way dampers? Cmoon... Its not according to homologation list.

Have I ?

Depends on the regulations.
Basically in all non-production groups the springs and dampers were free to choose.
So even a 4-way damper would fit, if available.
But anyway, I would not do it.
We are not talking about these old classic cars.

Just to show you that 4-way damping is an old technology:

http://www.ast-suspension.co.uk/moton/4-way-pro
http://www.penskeshocks.co.uk/car/dampers/4way/8770series/

For sure, the engineers at Bilstein, Koni, Reiger, Öhlins, just to name a few, were able and willing to build such dampers in their top-notch WRC cars back in the 2000s.

Dennis Zetak hat folgendes geschrieben:

About weight.. I wrote some cars with weight balance from NGP 5..:
POLO - 53:47
Fiesta 2017 - 52:48
Fabia R5 - 54:46 ...etc..

And now, in NGP6, Fabias balance is 50:50 .. That looks like only your tries

No, looks like I have a little bit more datas available now.
Simple as that.

What is the point of your arguments ?

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Mi März 20, 2019 22:45    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

About brakes.. you simulate a regulator of pressure on rear? Or I dont understand of this balance.. in Fabia R5 in RBR its ok. Same pressure on front and rear a it shows 50:50 balance.

About dampers. My friend, Tomas Ondrej has a Skoda Fabia WRC 2004, ex Gardemeister.. Old WRC, he have just 3way damps. Car is comparable with Xsara or C4. And yes, 4way is a old technology but its made for circuit racing not for rallying. In rally 4way damps technology came much later.. to new era wrc11

Whats my point?
I just try to understand this new type of physics, compare some things with ngp5 and some things with reality, from videos and my knowledge. Shortly we have central testing of racing cars, so Im interest of weight balance of FabiaR5 in real.
 
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